18 replies to this topic

[maderschramm]

Breakdown:

I've set this up in the following way:


[Category]: [Naming Convention (if Applicable)]


[Description of Title]
[English Name] - [Japanese Name]

[My Choice Name] - [Reason for Change or Keeping the Same]


All are alphabetized according to their respective category by [My Choice Name]


Cities: (most) named for the months in the Hebrew Calendar, others are related to Norse Mythology


Kingdom at War With Kislev
Aveh - Av(e)

Aveh - although "Av" is the proper name for the eleventh month of the civil year and the fifth month of the ecclesiastical year of the Hebrew Calendar and is Babylonian in origin, I strongly feel that Aveh is too recognizable as a name to change, and "Aveh" has "Av" at its root. Also, naming conventions in the English language hardly ever have places as one syllable words.


Capital of Aveh
Bledavik - Breidablik

Breidablik - One of the halls of Asgard and home of Baldr, the Norse God associated with light, beauty, love, and happiness in Norse mythology.


Sand City
Dazil - Dajil

Dazil - although most cities follow the naming convention, Dazil/Dajil does not, making me prefer to keep it as its English name, although a j for a d is not a big deal in the long run.


City Destroyed by Id
Elru - Elul

Elul - fits naming convention as the twelfth month of the Jewish civil year and the sixth month of the ecclesiastical year on the Hebrew calendar.


Capital City of Solaris
Etrenank - Etemenanki

Etemenanki - translates to "temple of the foundation of heaven and earth". It is also the name of a ziggurat dedicated to Marduk located in Babylon. Thought by many to have influenced the Tower of Babel biblical story.


Where You Meet Rico
Nortune - Noatun

Nóatún - proper spelling of "Noatun" in keeping with Norse conventions. Just as the city is located in Xenogears, it was sea-side, and the home of the God Njörðr (perhaps the bigass battleship? )


Flying City
Shevat - Shebat

Shevat - accurate spelling of the fifth month of the civil year and the eleventh month of the ecclesiastical year on the Hebrew calendar.


Floating City
Thames - Tamuz

Tammuz - although I hate to do it as I love the Thames (and it relates to Thames river...loosely), Tammuz is the tenth month of the civil year and the fourth month of the ecclesiastical year on the Hebrew calendar.



Other Places:


Place Where Krelian Gives Speech in Solaris
Arbot Plaza - Arabot Plaza

Arabot Plaza - in the Jewish Kabbalah, the Zohar declares Arabot as one of the 7 layers of heaven.


Where Elly Sacrifices Self to Save Party
Golgoda - Golgotha

Golgotha - this is too easy. I have no idea why Square changed this. The party is even being crucified for Christ's sake. If you didn't know, Golgotha is the site where Jesus was crucified.


Main Continent
Ignas - Ignis

Ignas - although Ignis translates to "fire" in Latin, it's a weak correlation at best, not enough to change from original English.



The Elements: named after the four highest of the Christian Angelic Hierarchy


Blind, Blue Haired Element
Kelvena - Cherubina

Cherubina - second highest angels are called "Cherubim". Cherubim are considered the elect beings for the purpose of protection.


Platinum Blonde, Twin-ponytailed Cyborg
Tolone - Throne

Throne - Mistranslation from 'l' and 'r' sounds, third highest angels are called "Thrones" or "Ophanim". Thrones are living symbols of God's justice and authority.



Gebler: named after major German scientists and psychologists (mostly)


Name of the Crew
Gebler - Geburah

Geburah - also spelled "Gevurah" is the fifth of the Sephirot of the tree of life in the Kabbalah. a.k.a. "The left hand of God", Geburah is understood as God's mode of punishing the wicked and judging of humanity in general. It is the foundation of stringency, absolute adherence to the letter of the law, and strict meting out of justice.


Large Officer with Short Cropped Hair, Looks Angry
Broyer - Breuer

Breuer - Josef Breuer is an Austrian physicist considered by many to be leader of psychoanalysis.


Pretty Boy Bitch
Vance - Frantz

Frantz - Frantz Omar Fanon was a West Indian psycholanalyst/philosopher. Fits naming convention just loosely enough to work.


Pink Haired with Glasses
Helmholz - Helmholtz

Helmholtz - why not add the 't'? Hermann von Helmholtz invented a device that produces a region of nearly uniform magnetic field named the "Helmholtz Coil".


Dark Skinned with Red Hair and Short Beard
Renk - Rank

Rank – Otto Rank was an Austrian psychoanalyst, writer, teacher, and therapist. Also one of Sigmund Freud's closest colleagues for 20 years.


Green Haired Lanky Guy
Stratski - Strakki

Stranski - can't find any convention to go with "Strakki", so sticking with English name, but altering "t" to "n" as there are many physicists that fit the naming convention by that name (e.g. Georgi Stranski, Ivan Stranski, etc.)



Other People: no real convention; however, some relate to each other.


How Cain Refers to Fei (the Contact)
Anonelbe - Ahnenerbe

Anonelbe - although Ahnenerbe was a Nazi think tank, the correlation doesn't match up with the Contact's job in the story enough to support changing this name from its English equivalent.


Fei's Friend (Dan's Sister)
Alice - Aruru

Aruru – in the Gilgamesh epic, Aruru is the Babylonian mother goddess. Her symbol is 'omega' - “Ω”. Much as Aruru created the child Enkidu (who embodies the wild or natural world and acts in some ways as an antithesis to the cultured, urban-bred warrior-king [Gilgamesh]), Alice's death brings the rebirth of Id.


Bart the Pirate King
Bartholomew - Barthlomei

Bartholomew - one of Jesus' Disciples. Bartholomew is the biblical spelling of this name.


The "Doc"
Citan - Shitan

Citan – sorry fanboys. Shitan is stupid because its derivitive is "shit". I even believe the proper English pronunciation of this name is "Shit-On". Citan is what I grew up with, it will stay. Also, the name has no other meaning or relevance to the plot whatsoever, unlike Elly's.


Fei's Love Interest, Elly
Elhaym - Elehayym

Elehayym - incorporates Myyah's name (see Myyah).


Talking Dolphin on Yggdrasil
Franz - Banth

Franz - no way am I changing Franz's name; also, Banth has no relevance whatsoever to the plot or Babylonian/Hebrew stuff (it's a 6 legged lion).


Anti-Hero (Fei's Alternate Personality)
Id – Id

id – it always bothered me that Id's name was capitalized. It seems to me that it should be lowercase as this would incorporate his incomplete nature (as he is merely a part of the larger whole that is Fei). He acknowledges this fact as well, knowing full well he's only a piece of the whole. I also think it would be more dramatic when you learn his name. “Names do not matter; however, if you insist...id...”


Anti-Hero, Ramsus
Kahran - Carlin

Kahran - no reason to change, so keeping Kahran.


Main 'Villain'
Krelian - Karellen

Karellen - relation to book "Childhood's End", Karellen is the "Supervisor for Earth" in the fictional evolution of the human race, linking the character quite accurately with the novelized one as the evolution desired is in taking humans to a higher plane of existence by merging with a god-like entity named "the overmind".


Green Haired 'Daughter' of Fei
Emeralda - Emerada

Emeralda - makes more sense in English as her hair is 'emerald' colored.


Cloaked Bastard Who Keeps Making Your Enemies Stronger
Grahf - Graf

Graf - German title equal to a count. German naming conventions are used all over the place in this game, making this an applicable change (van blossom o fallen seed...ah ah ah).


Bart's Cousin (Incest ewwww...)
Margie – Maroeur

Margie – Maroeur seems to have no higher meaning and is difficult to pronounce in English. Also, as Bart's name is simple and English in origin, it would be assumed that Margie's should be as well.


Purple Haired Anti-Hero
Miang - Myyah

Myyah - last 5 letters of Elehayym's name backwards implying a correlation between the two (as they're two entities of the first woman created it is applicable to change). Spooky


Maria's Father
Nicora - Nikolai

Nikola - neither name has a correlation; however, by dropping the “i” you get a correlation to Nikola Testla – Serbian by birth, Austrian by law, American by choice, bad ass by nature. Super-genius of his time, invented many potentially dangerous machines (oh, hai gear mixed with human ^^).



Gears, Bosses, and Monsters: no correlation besides the tenancy to gravitate towards Greek, Norse, and Babylonian names.


Gebler Gear
Aegisknight - Shield Knight

Aegisknight - better name meaning the same thing. Aegis once again relates Greek mythology as Aegis was the name of the shield used by Zues.


Grahf's Gear
Alpha Weltall - OR Weltall

Alpha Weltall – means the same thing as “OR Weltall” (if you assume OR is short for "original") and keeps with Greek naming convention.


Ramsus' Gear, Purple with Two Heads
Amphysvena - Amphisbaena

Amphisbaena - is an ant-eating serpent with two heads from Greek Mythology. Makes more sense this way as the gear also has two heads.


Miang's Gear
Miang's Gear – C1-Type Vierge

C1-Type Vierge – “Miang's Gear” is stupid, it has no descriptive qualities. C1-Type Vierge relates her back to Elly, once again.


Gebler Gear
Clawknight – Cup Knight

Clawknight – relates to the physical appearance of enemy and its weapon of choice.


Deus' Pillar
Harlute – Harut

Harut – one of two angels mentioned in the second Surah of the Qur'an, sent down to test the people at Babel or Babylon by performing deeds of magic. (See Marut)


Gear/Human Hybrid That Beats the Hell Out of Elly
Rattan – Kenren

Kenren – neither name has higher meaning and I prefer “Kenren”.


Deus' Pillar
Marlut - Marut

Marut - one of two angels mentioned in the second Surah of the Qur'an, sent down to test the people at Babel or Babylon by performing deeds of magic. (See Harut)


Gear/Human Hybrid That Beats the Hell Out of Elly
Mugwort - Tenpou

Mugwort – I like the name better than the Japanese equivalent. Neither seem to have higher significance.


Miang's Gear
Opiomorph - Ophiomorphus

Ophiomorphus - related to ophiomorpha (burrow/snake like fossils created by ancient, unnamed creatures) and the root term “ophion” which is a Greek titan with references to families of lizards. “Ophion” literally means "serpent".


Deus' Pillar
Sundel - Sandalphon

Sandalphon - Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah. He is described as an archangel who is extremely tall.


Spiral Boss on Yggdrasil
Schpariel - Spirale

Schpariel – both names are poor, sticking with English.


Maria's Gear
Seibzehn - Siebzehn

Siebzehn - why can't American translators spell? 17 in German. This is honestly a mistake. Look it up, it's retarded.


Boss Composed of Compiled Wells
Sufal - Sphar

Sufal – although “Sphar” does mean “to burst forth” it's not a direct correlation to anything else in the game. Also, in boss form, “Sphar Mass” doesn't sound as good as “Sufal Mass” (back to two syllable English convention).



Misc: no correlation besides the tenancy to gravitate towards Greek, Norse, and Babylonian names.


Container of Anima
Anima Relic - Anima Container

Anima Relic – Relic implies “from the past”, also it sounds better and is more descriptive.


Biological Supercomputer
Kadomony - Kadmoni

Kadmoni – the derivative “Kadmon” is a reference to “Adam Kadmon”. In the religious writings of the Kabbalah, Adam Ḳadmon is a phrase meaning "Primal Man", or, the first being to emerge after the creation of the cosmos. As Kadomony is the computer that creates Elly/Miang, there is a striking significance here. “Kadmony” looks strange so I say “Kadmoni”.


Deus' Army
Malakh - Malekh

Mal'akh – the Mal'akh are the messengers of God. As Deus is a God in this game and his army are the Malakh, having them named the Mal'akh just gives the proper spelling of the name. Mal'akh is also the general Hebrew word for “angel”.


Krelian's Ark
Merkava - Merkabah

Merkabah - divine light vehicle used to ascend masters to connect with and reach those in higher planes of existence. Although both names mean “chariot” in Hebrew, only “Merkabah” has the secondary spiritual reference to a 'divine light vehicle'.


Final Boss/Gene Miang Has
Urobolus - Uroboros

Uroborus - both names are wrong, the symbol of a serpent eating its own tail is called a Ouroboros or Uroborus. Chose Uroborus as it keeps the conventional naming both versions had but changes the Japanese "o" to the English "u" to be the correct spelling. Miangs cyclical/recurring life relates to the meaning of the Urobrus.


System Deus is Part of
Yabeh - Yahweh

Yahweh – the Bible describes Yahweh as the one true God who delivered Israel from Egypt and gave out the Ten Commandments. Is a transliteration of “the four letters”, YHWH, which is supposedly the actual Hebrew name of the God of Israel. Jewish people supposedly don't like to speak this name aloud but can write it, possibly indicating why it was translated to “Yabeh” in the first place.

[Hyuga]

Gotta say, I like 95% of the choices you made.

How long did it take you to look all this up? I presume you don't just know all this off the top of your head. I could be wrong though.

How do you figure the originals changed so far to become what they did?

I may have to give grief over the Thames change. It'll be a while before I can see the cap'n calling the City At Sea the Tammuz. That's just a personal opinion though, and I can appreciate the Hebrew roots.

Another thing, even if the Gebler forces were named after physicists and other such scientists, the Gebler themselves weren't those things. Isn't it plausible that the names are coincidental? Or do their faces bear close resemblances to the real people?

Capitalizing Id...if you don't, it almost appears that he's just cutting off in mid-sentence to start the fight. If you do, it gives a proper name to one of the facets of Fei, even though the true base is only referred to as the 'coward' or the original Fei. Plus chaos in Xenosaga had an all lowercase name. I'd be fine with either. I'm just playing the advocate for the voiceless here.

But things like Anima Relic as opposed to Container are definitely good calls. I'm glad you favor Kahran too. Carlin doesn't sound very threatening. Plus Kahran is close to Koran.

Anonelbe is only mentioned by name once so changing that could be ok. I know you said you wouldn't, but the whole idea of it was to "free humanity from it's yoke." That yoke being the control from the Gazel and Cain.
So changing it to the name of a "self-sufficient" think-tank could be ok.

Again, I like most of the changes, now, after seeing them and their definitions. If you'd just showed the two names without anything to back it up I would probably only agree with about half the changes.

On a complete side note, about Yahweh, I've been so told that Hebrews / Jews revere the name of God so highly that they won't spell it in it's entirety. They believe if it's fully written that it should never be erased. That may be the origin of the 'four letters'. That's what I've heard anyway.

[Mako]

To change your forum description, just click edit post, then use full editor located at the bottom.

I have got to say, this is the most impressive contribution to Xenogears ever! Like I said before, with the tools we have today it would very much be possible the edit the game and get these translations in there!

I can't find much that I don't like, I like the name Elru and Thames better. But these are probably due to the fact that I grew up with them.

It is an impressive post none the less, do you have a name for this project? or would you like it to be bundled with project eden?

[Wilhelm]

i leave for a day or two and look what happens. i'll agree with mako here perhaps you can use some creative license and drop one of the -y in elly and maings name. Just food for thought i know this forum isn't very big but perhaps you can pin this topic mako so that other members find this with ease. Keep up the good work this is great.

[maderschramm]

It can be bundled with project eden, that said, I put in the work so if I choose (hypothetically) to take it elsewhere without being sued . Perhaps you could select between two scripts during the new game: english and the maderschramm edit

[Mako]

maderschramm, on 08 December 2010 - 10:29 PM, said:

It can be bundled with project eden, that said, I put in the work so if I choose (hypothetically) to take it elsewhere without being sued . Perhaps you could select between two scripts during the new game: english and the maderschramm edit

Yes! It is yours to do what you will with it. That being said I will update the "project eden" page to reflect the work done here.

[maderschramm]

@Hyuga

Quote

How long did it take you to look all this up? I presume you don't just know all this off the top of your head. I could be wrong though.

To look it up...I'd say roughly 4 hours. The project took probably 6-10 (an extra two because the forum went down and I was composing everything in the "Notes" section of my profile, so I had to rewrite ~2 hours of work). 2 hours to find the discrepancies, 2-4 hours editing and cross referencing.

Quote

How do you figure the originals changed so far to become what they did?

I'd assume just English translators. The game almost wasn't released here as the religious themes were thought to be too much for American gamers at the time, so, I can understand changes like Yahweh and Golgotha. I also can assume German wasn't a strong point in the original translator's repertoire - citing the misspelling of Seibzehn as a prime example; therefore, things like Geburah didn't make sense, so they changed them towards more English words and they missed the references towards the physicists and psychologists, etc.

Quote

Another thing, even if the Gebler forces were named after physicists and other such scientists, the Gebler themselves weren't those things. Isn't it plausible that the names are coincidental? Or do their faces bear close resemblances to the real people?

While they bear no physical resemblance the fact that they're there makes me believe it was intentional. Especially the "Rank" one, as a close friend of Freud's who, as we know, is all over this game (Id, etc.)

Quote

Capitalizing Id...if you don't, it almost appears that he's just cutting off in mid-sentence to start the fight. If you do, it gives a proper name to one of the facets of Fei, even though the true base is only referred to as the 'coward' or the original Fei. Plus chaos in Xenosaga had an all lowercase name. I'd be fine with either. I'm just playing the advocate for the voiceless here.

If you were in that situation and some red haired dude busts out of nowhere and starts kicking asses and you ask his name and he says "Names have no meaning; however, if you insist...Id..." what would you think? You can't 'hear' capitalization, I would assume the characters wouldn't think his name is actually 'Id' either under later in the game when the name recurs; however, the gamer can be confirmed of the name in the battle as the name of the enemy is displayed before each attack.


@Wilhelm
That's a great idea to change to one 'y' instead of two, getting Elehaym and Myah, respectively. I'm not sure which route yet I'll go, but I'll most certainly take it under consideration.

Edited by maderschramm, 09 December 2010 - 02:01 PM.

[RadicalDreamer]

Some names I agree with you, some I don't (mainly because it's a bit more complicated to pronounce *even if it does indeed make more sense... Elly and Miang's names for example...*... and really, sometimes I was glad there were mistranslations... it made the names a little bit less obvious/unimaginative *symbolism is nice but I think Xenogears went overboard with the names... maybe it's a japanese thing... I mean, when I look at Final Fantasy's Cloud, Squall, Snow, Hope and Lightning... people in real life would be totally mocked if they wore those names but japanese name their characters that way for symbolism... also, they're not english speakers*... and some names just didn't sound right in english yeah... "Shitan" is indeed one of them).
I like what you said about Id/id... it's true that it is a bit more dramatic that way... "Id" isn't a proper name for Fei's alter ego... it's just what he is... he could have renamed himself "Evil Alter Ego"... it would have been the same to him ("id" is just shorter and less awkward lol).
Also, I really really prefer Carlin over Kahran for some reason.
The result of a new more accurate translation may be interesting... as the english one was pretty flawed ("Knigret" and "Har"... ah ah... and here I was wondering who was Knigret... and it turned out it was no one, just a really badly translated line).

Edited by RadicalDreamer, 11 February 2011 - 12:35 PM.

[Mako]

I wish he would come back to visit! It was an interesting project.

[maderschramm]

Oh, I'm around - don't worry, I haven't forgotten. I'm writing my thesis for school this semester though so this got put on the backburner

[Mako]

maderschramm, on 13 February 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Oh, I'm around - don't worry, I haven't forgotten. I'm writing my thesis for school this semester though so this got put on the backburner

This is wonderful news! Thanks for the update. Good luck this semester.

[WeltallZero]

I know this is an old topic, and that it is a very poor choice for a second post ever for a newbie, but I just know I'm going to forget this the second I leave this post (I'm dreadfully forgetful).

Ignas - although Ignis translates to "fire" in Latin, it's a weak correlation at best, not enough to change from original English.

The correlation may not be that weak, as all major zones of the Xenogears world are named after latin worlds for classical elements:
http://images2.wikia...x-Worldmap2.jpg
Terrane is pretty obviously derived from Terra, and the original Japanese name for Acvi is Akuvi, which is most certainly derived from Aqua (particularly considering this zone is pretty much an archipelago). I have a feeling that the fourth continent where Elul/Elru was, would be named after Aeris (insert FFVII or ASoIaF pun here :P).

[kare_reiko]

I just wonder, I read that in jap ver Ethos was just "church" you will go with church or Ethos?

[RadicalDreamer]

Personally, I prefer "the Church" over the "Ethos"... which I always thought sounded weird to the ears. That's very personal of course... and we all know the change from japanese to english was on purpose (to not offend too much the real Church irl).
When I think about it... I wonder if Xenogears being a bit of a niche game (and a video game, knowing the medium isn't well recognized yet... well, not as much as the other mediums anyway) isn't so bad finally. Imagine if this game had been a big production and had been released just now. I have a feeling more religious people would have reacted violently against it (I mean, in 2 weeks in France, I learned some Christians wanted to ban a play... while Islamists blew up the office of a newspaper magazine *I'm sick of those religious extremist people, frankly...*).
And I guess the fact that the game was made by japanese people is a chance too. I mean, the guys can make a manga about Jesus and Buddha being buddies in the modern world and get away with it (or maybe I missed any drama this manga could have provoked, I don't know).

[WeltallZero]

Since I originally played the game in Japanese, I also prefer most if not all of the original names, and "the Church" is no exception. Indeed, it is quite clear they pretty much had to change it: in fact, the game was originally not going to be released in the US; it's a small miracle (no pun intended :P) that it did. And I was kind of surprised they didn't rename "Deus" similarly when it did.

On one hand, it is kind of sad that in this day and age, in supposedly civilized and free countries, we should still fear censorship and backlash by an organization such as the church. On the other, Square is a company, and probably can not be asked nor can really afford to change the world, make a statement or get into trouble about this...

I myself are a diehard atheist, and tend to get into discussions (and ocassionally arguments) with my more religiusly-oriented friends, so I'll try to make a point to keep my, erm, more inflamatory opinions to myself, for everyone's sake. ;

Edited by WeltallZero, 04 November 2011 - 04:29 AM.